How was it for you?

How much fun was that game last night? Not the first 35 minutes obviously but by the end of 120 minutes I couldn’t actually remember how I felt when Reading’s 4th goal had hit the back of the net.

Aaaarrrrrggggghhhh that was how I felt and it’s also how I feel now because my whole match report has disappeared into the ether :(

What to say quickly so that you can all carry on chatting? Bullet points it is then …………….

How can we concede 5 goals?

What an amazing come-back, although we do like to do that in this cup competition. Why isn’t that desire there for some PL games?

Theo Walcott – what an absolute star he was last night, I shall be very upset to see him in another shirt. He’s dangerous, so dangerous.

Olivier Giroud – looked comfortable last night as an Arsenal player. The difference between him and Chamakh is that he fills the space that he stands in whereas Chamakh always looks like he wants to be invisible.

Arshavin is going to need a month to recover from last night, he worked so hard, I can’t believe he played the whole 90 minutes, he must have been exhausted even before Miguel had to go off injured and from then he had no chance of being subbed.

Well done again to the away supporters who were magnificent.

Bringing on Giroud and Eisfeld were important substitutions.

Hahaha to McDermott for bringing on a sub in injury time only for time to be added on for us to score the equaliser.

Any number of players could have scored any number of goals once we got started but why wait until you’re four down to up your game?

It was fantastic, a real roller-coaster of a game and we’re in the next round phew.  If anyone wants to write some player ratings we can add them on.

peachesgooner

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231 Responses to How was it for you?

  1. marcus says:

    As a gooner, I am relieved we got the points. However, there are a lot of things I would like to discuss. First and foremost, Djourou should be on the ‘for sale’ list in January. It is obvious he will never be of the standard required to play for arsenal. Making him captain was an even worse decision. Our defense in general was non existent, but I think he was at the center of it. Secondly, Frimpong isn’t the player everyone thinks he is. His misplaced passes and ineptitude in general show that he still has a lot to learn. He could benefit from a loan elsewhere. Then there is Olivier Giroud. If there’s one thing his goal showed us, it is that the first team clearly do not know how to get the best out of him. His header was sublime, top quality. He clearly lacks the kind of aerial service that would see him on the score sheet more often. It is because in our starting 11, there aren’t any good crossers except cazorla who plays centrally so doesn’t really get into good crossing positions. Arsene should work with the team on that. Finally, there’s Theo Walcott. That boy is by far the best finisher we have (save for maybe poldi). I still don’t get why arsene denies him his opportunity up front when he is currently our top scorer. He is a much better striker than gervinho. He can, and given the chance, will be our 25+ goal a season striker. His pace, movement, composure and finishing are superb to say the least. He has greatly improved his first touch and ball control to the point where he doesn’t need two chances to score. All this compounded with the fact that he scores from all angles in front of goal leave me bewildered when Arsene would rather start Gervinho there and deny Walcott his chance. I hope his hat trick knocked some sense into arsene’s head and we will see him as our front man in games to come.

  2. O Quadri says:

    3-0 within 20 minutes and 4-0 before the half time whistle, it wasn’t disgust that made me turn off the TV, but fear of how bad it will get on the night. I holed up superstitiously in the bedroom, hoping I haven’t jinxed our team by watching the game: If I witnessed Reading’s 4 goals, maybe looking away will stop the goals going in (I know it sounds stupid but that is how it gets for a fan). Big kudos to those fans we stayed strong and cheered on, but some of us don’t have the bottle.

    When Wenger blamed the fans who left at 4-0, he showed that managers and players don’t know what it feels like to be a fan. They will move on, but we will go on supporting our club.

    Give Us Back Our Arsenal.

  3. kris says:

    yes the boys managed a comeback but if u look at the whole match we should not be happy with what happened..yes Walcott scored but if you look at his overall performance,he did not help at all in defending and just kept to himself until he was given the through ball in the first half.he did better in the second half but because of the 3 goals it does not guarantee him anymore hype and forget that he has not been pulling through in most of the games we have played this season..
    well i would also be routing for Chamahk because he scored a brace but i will not and did not see the point in Wenger removing Gnabry but he did and the 2 people he brought on improved our game.
    we scored 7 goals and the only positive i get from that is that maybe this will give the boys more spirit to fight when we play against Man United over the weekend lest we play like we did in the first half and for the previous 3 games.
    in that way i guess we shall be doomed.

  4. Rasp says:

    Welcome Marcus. There are many on here who would agree with some if not all of your points.

    In particular I agree that we do not get the best out of OG when we play without specialist wide midfielders. He had very quick feet yesterday and showed that he can be a poacher as well as a battering ram.

  5. Breezy says:

    Well i was moaning about our players looking like they couldn’t care less at our defeat to Norwich, can’t say the same last night. Great effort from the lads to comeback from 4 down. Very very proud, COYG.

  6. max says:

    We Want Our Arsenal Back, that was a flakey French team last night. Reading were amateurish, certainties for relegation. This squad will win nothing because its been assembled to merely finish top4.

  7. Bryan says:

    Rasp well done for having a try, I think its got to be the hardest game to write about ever, unless its as long as war & peace :-)
    It was an amazing night, not only the come back but Chamakh scoring twice & Ashavin working his socks off, I’ve seen it all now.
    Was so disgusted with the 1st half performance, no Arsenal team wheather they have youngsters or not should ever perform that badly but all credit for the magnificent 2nd half fightback.
    Also as you said in your write up, it is about time a ref added on time in stoppage time for managers putting a sub on to waste more time lol that was hard to type.
    I thought Theo was fantastic last night & I am now hoping that we will give him what he wants because he is really starting to show us what he can do.
    I think this is a massive morale boost ahead of our game with Man u but one things for sure we will have to start well in that one

  8. We had 21 shots on target :)

  9. Gooner In Exile says:

    Shame that football fans can’t be happy!

    Lets appreciate the game for what it was, something stupid that we won’t see again. Good comeback from those on the field although not many other teams would allow us back in they would sit back and shut the doors

    The midfield did nothing to help the defence in the first half, there are 4 defenders on the pitch, they can’t cope with forwards and extra runners.

    Martinez had a nervy half, think he could have done better with Kos’s own goal, his body was there but he didn’t adjust his arms quickly enough, and the second was a case of trying to get a decent flying photo. That said he made some good saves too and although not claiming every ball he didn’t stop coming.

    The early comments about JD are unkind, he is 4th choice, when will people understand that 4th choice centre backs are never going to handle someone of the size and experience of Jason Roberts, the man is a quality pro, with a knowledge of what he is good at.

    Frimpong is a young pro with limited experience but some are writing him off, why do we do this? Why persecute a player who hasn’t come near to realising their potential

  10. kelsey says:

    As I only watched the first thirty minutes it wouldn’t be fair of me to give a worthwhile comment on the whole game (but the game is being repeated 3 times on Sky today) so I will come back later.

    However the first half an hour was a complete and utter horror show and though we made 11 changes we still had a number of internaionals in the side.

    Wenger surely didn’t say that this was the least priority of the season and therefore don’t worry just use it as a training match as the second half showed that there is a fightback in the team.

    We won’t get that luxury again by any half decent team .strange that bould is mainly respnsible for the defence which was non existant when i watched and though we got out of jail we still conceded 5 goals .

    Raddy ( re last post ) firmly puts the blame on wenger re Arshavin. interesting, you are following my thinking.

  11. Rasp says:

    Lighten up guys, we made 11 changes from the QPR game, scored 7 goals (some from players who desperately needed it to boost confidence) took part in an incredible game that will long remain in the memory ….. oh yes …. and we won.

    I’m not throwing myself off a bridge over that

  12. Big Raddy says:

    Peaches. Thank you and shame the original is in the ether.

    marcus. Good stuff. Do not agree with your hyping up of Theo. Yes, he is on a good run of form but he can also be incredibly frustrating – such is the way with a winger. He does not have the close control to play centrally plus he requires space to use his pace. But FairPlay to the man . he put away his chances last night.

    As 4th or 5th choice CB JD is good enough.

    O Quadri. You need to get a large sofa to hide behind, turning off isn’t the answer. As to Wenger “blaming” fans – I can find no reference to it, in fact he said quite the opposite.

  13. Rasp says:

    Bryan @ 10:20, peaches wrote the post … very hurriedly. But no matter there is plenty to talk about.

  14. slimgingergooner says:

    It was the perfect game for Halloween. Scary and fun at the same time!

    I enjoyed every second of it after 35 minutes, but without going 4-0 down it wouldn’t have been the same match, so I’m not going to rip into the team because these are the sort things that can happen when it’s 11 players who haven’t really played for a while, never mind played together.

    I thought Walcott was outstanding last night and I totally agree that his finishing and all round play has improved massively, but he still cannot play with his back to goal in a way that would allow us to build attacks. Wether played upfront or out wide, I have watched too many inept performances from him to believe he is the 38 game a year man that RvP or Henry were. He is a player for specific occasions and should rotate with Giroud accordingly.

    I must give a bit of praise to Kozzer who was outstanding in extra time last night after a pretty horrendous 90 minutes. Coquelin and Eisfeld were brilliant when we went to 4-2-4 and I thought Chamakh was at the heart of everything we did after 65 minutes.

    Great to see Giroud score again and I hope he starts along with Theo at the weekend because he’s starting to grow into his role. Arshavin was his usual average self last night, missed passes all over the place, not much tracking back, but created 2 goals and skinned his full back at will! He’s such a mystery player!

    I was at work for the 90 minutes and had to sit there as colleagues ripped into me whilst i batted them off with the same ‘its only the Capital One Cup’ and ‘we got the reserves out’ excuses. my Arsenal friend was nearly attacking people at 4-0 down whilst its fair to say that i wasnt all that bothered. By the 95th minute though i was definately bothered!

    Great performance from a set of players whom I honestly believed would’ve given up at 4-0. Anyone who tells me Arsene can’t motivate these lads needs to look at how he got players like Chamakh and Arshavin, who it’s fair to say haven’t got a great deal to play for at the club, to put in that shift in the 2nd half. Outstanding comeback against, lets not forget, a Premier League first team.

    Happy Halloween!!!

  15. 26may1989 says:

    Morning all – many commiserations to Peaches for the loss of the original, finely crafted, insightful report on last night’s extravaganza. And well done for putting together a tight report with no time available!

    Much as it was deeply irritating to see the utterly inept performance in the first half last night, it would be the height of churlishness to concentrate on that. After all, of the starting XI, all the players other than Coquelin and Jenkinson had had little to no recent first team action, and in the cases of Frimpong and Walcott, were coming back from injury. The performance wasn’t good enough, but some of the rustiness and disjointedness was understandable.

    The determination shown to fight back was impressive. Perhaps the players thought back to when the boot was on the other foot, back at St James’s Park, and at some level thought “4-0 down? With an hour to play, we can turn that around…”

    I’m one of Walcott’s admirers, so of course I’m delighted that he was at the heart of the come-back, but I have to say, based on the freeze-frame of the 4-4 equaliser, a sliver of the ball was still over a sliver of the line. To me, it was definitely Jenkinson’s goal.

    Although I didn’t get the chance to comment the other day on Rasp’s excellent post about Walcott’s contract. There is a lot of sense in what Rasp says, but part of me still thinks Walcott might stay. The delay suggests otherwise but perhaps the deal is more complictaed than the usual deal; perhaps Theo’s people want to negotiate some special terms on Theo’s particular impact on image rights etc, which from a legal point of view, would be much more complex and time-consuming than a standard deal. Pure speculation on my part, but I am a tiny bit bit more optimistic than some others about Theo staying.

    Back to last night: Giroud’s arrival was key, he was great, both in terms of technique and attitude.

    Lovely to see Chamkah show some real quality. I’m certain his future lies elsewhere, probably back in France, but it was good to see him smiling and able to take some pride in what he’s doing. Good also to see our little Russian make a valuable contribution.

    The kids? Martinez, Miquel, Coqeulin, Gnabry and Frimpong might be criticised by some, but they’re learning and their errors last night will be valuable in their development, so long as they learn from them. Each of those players has shown enough quality in the past to suggest that they have the capacity to do very well. Eisfeld, coming off the bench and therefore not tainted by the failures of the starting XI, had a good game, and I thought Jernade Meade rose to the challenge well on debut.

    Hopefully, there will be a real buzz at the training ground today, that could make a valuable contribution to the first team’s preparations for the big game on Saturday.

  16. Flavour says:

    At 4-0 I stayed on my laptop as I have this feeling that Arsenal will cover the gap. I just do not know where that feeling came from but when Theo scored the first goal for us it gave me more hope. The two Sky men on stand during the half believed if Arsenal scores the second then it is not over as we might win the ball and at the end we did. There is no negative in here. A win is a win and I am happy for the fight and the come back. They won at the end! The end of the matter is more important than the beginning

  17. Bryan says:

    Look guys, yes we were a shambles 1st half but the fact that we showed such determination, courage & fight to come back is a really good thing, surely.
    Would you prefer that we just won 2-0, I for one wouldn’t, it was one of the most amazing games I have ever seen & as I said earlier, it is a fantastic morale booster. Look what it could do with Chamakh for example, the confidence he showed in scoring his 2nd was immense, he would of never got near pulling that off at the start of the game & of course there are other players that it will help reinforce their belief.

  18. Bryan says:

    Thanks for pointing that out Rasp,well written Peaches, I am seeing double or triple after last night lol

  19. 26may1989 says:

    What Wenger said about the fans who were at the game:

    “Overall, I just felt sorry for our fans because at 2-0, they stayed behind the team. At 3-0, they stayed behind the team. At 4-0, they stayed behind the team. I would like to give them credit tonight. [On some fans leaving at 4-0…] Yes. I give them less credit. The big part of the fans stayed behind the team and I’m happy we paid them back in the second half.”

    Fair enough. Never, ever give up, never, ever leave early. Last night four of our goals came in either the last few minutes of the 90 minutes or the last few minutes of the 120. Things happen at the end of games, when players are tired and space opens up. And anyway, if you’ve spent all that money and time getting to a game, what the hell is the point of leaving early, even if things do look forlorn? The fans that did stay knew that, and deserve praise for their staying power, so it follows that those that left prematurely should be (gently) ridiculed.

  20. Rasp says:

    Hi 26m, I hope you are right over Theo’s contract. Since you are way better qualified to comment on such matters I shall take encouragement from your view that there is still hope.

    Someone mentioned the other day that TH14′s last year deal broke our wage structure and I believe that Cesc was handsomely rewarded latterly too.

    Do you know the mechanics of how we can put more money in a player’s pocket whilst still makng their weekly wage look in keeping with others?

  21. Bryan says:

    Can you imagine how gutted the fans that left at 4-0 are feeling this morning hah

  22. Big Raddy says:

    O Quadri. ““I just felt sorry for our fans,” said Wenger, “because at 2-0, they stayed behind the team. At 3-0, they stayed behind the team. At 4-0, they stayed behind the team. I would like to give them credit tonight.”

  23. Big Raddy says:

    Rasp. You mean like a George Graham envelope or a Redknapp brown paper bag?

  24. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Peaches,
    Thank you for stepping up. Twice :-)
    Rasp,
    “Lighten up”…spot on.
    If you cannot enjoy that as entertainment, time to move on.

  25. evonne says:

    Bryan – Peaches wrote the report and a very apt one, thank you P

    GiE – amen to that.

  26. Rasp says:

    GN5, Mr. Stato, when you’re about – has a game between 2 PL sides (even though it was the Capital one Cup) ever yielded 12 goals before?

  27. 26may1989 says:

    Max is clearly disappointed at the fightback, it would suit his agenda much better for us to have lost last night. Sorry the team disappointed you, Max.

    Re being a “flaky French team”, by my count, of the 14 who played, only three French players played last night, and only two other francophones played (Djourou and Chamakh). Those players scored four of our seven goals last night (though admittedly one also scored against us!).

    It’s interesting to see Arsenal fans use French passports as a point of criticism. Presumably, they hated everything that Henry, Pires, Vieira, Petit etc achieved. What bastards they were.

    Come on, just enjoy last night’s result, that sort of result doesn’t come around very often.

  28. 26may1989 says:

    Rasp, technically not the right answer to your question, because it predates the PL, but I remember reading about a 6-6 result in the 1930s between Leicester and Arsenal.

  29. Rasp says:

    Micky, I couldn’t stop smiling on the way home after the game. It was just too bizarre to take seriously. None of the supporters of other teams that I know (totts and manu in particular) have texted me or come up and said your team were rubbish …. they are envious that we took part in such an epic game – even the Reading fans weren’t to despondent.

  30. Big Raddy says:

    I want my 1-0 to the Arsenal back.

    Rasp. & has a team ever scored 13 goals in two Cup games

  31. dandan says:

    What a marvellous nights entertainment the first half hour a horror show, a non existent midfield and panicked defence made for perhaps the worst Arsenal performance I can remember, worse than the the Mancs.. 8-2 thrashing. Then Theo Scored and lit a little spark of hope.

    Some of our supporters were magnificent vocal, defiant and uplifting, forget those who walked out they didn’t deserve to enjoy the second half ride anyway. Who wouldn’t respond to that, this team did: a couple of changes by Wenger reinforced the midfield and things began to happen. We won the second half and extra time 6-1 a miracle turn round and great fun. The last time I felt like that was at the five minute cup final again against the Mancs, I just knew an Alan Sunderland moment would see us through and of course it did. A game of two halves they say Bloody hell!!! Goals galore, shirts thrown into the crowd then having to be retrieved and a euphoric away support getting their just reward for singing their hearts out…. give me more I loved it.

    Whisper it quietly perhaps our name is on that pot??? oh no it couldn’t be could it ???. :-)

  32. evonne says:

    ssshhhhhhush Dandan

  33. Rasp says:

    :lol: Raddy, no, I don’t think brown envelopes are our style any more thank goodness – we’ll leave that to ‘arry.

    But maybe a signing fee or something. I have no idea how Theo (and his agent) divide their ‘desire’ between pay and trophies. I know that whatever we come up with, manu, city and the chavs can trump it with ease.

  34. There are so many things to take from last night’s game I say breathlessly. On the positive side, we scored 7 goals, but we let 5 in. Okay, we won. Theo scored enough to vindicate my belief that his future lies with us. Nowhere else. A compromise must be found to sort out his contract wranglings. We can do without seeing him in a line-up against us.
    Our opponents in Saturday’s 3 pointer play tonight in a game which could be clouded in controversy. For more than one reason we need to win this weekend. My main hope is that we haven’t spent all our resolve on coming back to win last night. The Premiership is serious business now. Qualifying for the ECL is for when winning our League is beyond us mathematically. I am hoping for a bruising encounter at the Bridge tonight.

  35. 26may1989 says:

    Rasp, you ask about the mechanics of putting more money in a player’s pocket whilst still makng their weekly wage look in keeping with others. There are many structures that could be put in place, but the essential concession would be Arsenal accepting that Walcott makes a disproportionate contribution on image terms that might justify some separate and additional remuneration. I think the club has had previous arrangements with Henry and perhaps Cesc, so they may have their own formula to fall back on, but there would certainly be various ways to separate out a simple wage-plus-bonus element (the usual contract) and alongside it have an arrangement on image rights.

    Even if the club has done this before, it would be a big concession to make, given that Theo is young and hasn’t made himself a core part of the team. But it is also true that he has higher recognition value than pretty much any other player now in our squad. If I ever doubt that, I just ask my kids and their Arsenal supporting mates, Theo is always the first name off their lips, now that van Persie and Cesc have gone. Chamberlain will get there but it’ll be a while yet before he has the same currency.

  36. henrychan - indonesia says:

    Last night was very dramatic moment..
    It already 3 in the morning in Indonesia..
    And you know what.. I hate to saw our starting XI..
    Djorou.. Frimpong together with Coquelin.. and Chamakh as starter.. wow.. is it real..??? And Gnabry as CAM..?? wow..
    Was Wenger insane..?? Does he really underestimate Reading..??

    And as we all knew.. we lost 3 goals in 20 minutes..
    Never ever happened to us before..
    even when we lost to MU last season..
    What happened to our defenders..
    How can they be so awful and broken team..??

    I tried to keep hoping and believing..
    but guess what.. another goal came.. we lost by reading..??
    I just can’t believed it.. I was very depressed and ashamed..
    It was very humialiated indeed..

    But then suddenly a hope come arising..
    Walcott score.. But time was up.. Half time..

    Not in my wildest dream.. that we can comeback..
    I just hope we score more.. that at least we didn’t lost a lot..
    Yes we kept fighting.. But It seem useless..
    Untill Giroud and Eisfeld came in..
    But Giroud scored second just pleased me a little..
    And time kept running.. And Reading sometime still made us worried..
    Koscielny goal.. in 89′.. wow.. can this be miracle..??
    And yes it was.. the miracle do come true..
    Walcott keeping the dream alive..

    And I though.. that’s it.. Draw.. And we can do better next in Emirates..
    I almost turned off my TV.. But the show must go on..
    The energy is our.. so victory is just something coming sooner or later..
    And yes we did it.. We really did it..
    A very unforgettable morning..

    I give my credit to Arshavin.. this man showed that he is still somebody..
    But Walcott is my MOTM.. 100 %..
    Eisfeld is wonderfull.. Wenger must promote him to the first team.. instead Gnabry.. Gnabry still very young.. 17 yo..
    Eisfeld is 19.. more that Ox..

    And now here we are.. A very proud Gunners..
    With this kind of energy we can surely beat MU and Schalke even away from home..

    Go Gunners.. Love you forever..

  37. Big Raddy says:

    Gervinho out for 4 weeks.

  38. Bryan says:

    Yes Rasp also pointed that out to me thanks Evonne, I have not been seeing to well, it all started at about 7.45 last night haha

  39. Bryan says:

    Sorry but I can’t help thinking that losing Gervinho for 4 weeks is good news

  40. Rasp says:

    Thanks 26m, great response. Recognition value = money in the bank? … for once I wouldn’t mind if we dealt with this one as a business rather than a football club :roll:

  41. Gooner In Exile says:

    Last nights game gave me ammunition for at least two posts, now time to write them up is all I need.

  42. richie says:

    Oh What a Night!
    Well in the words of a man we all love to hate “It’s a Funny Old game” or how about “it was a game of two halves” talk about a roller coaster ride. With 40 minutes gone in my local Gonner pub, nearly everyone was supporting the bar with their backs to the screens. When Theo scored our first there wasn’t even a cheer, in the main Gooners watched the replay muttering “too little too late” or “a consolation”.

    The talk at the interval was about whether Wenger was capable of giving the team the hair dryer treatment? SAF’s name came up along with “unacceptable” several times. Quite a few took the piss “Wenger will take away their library cards” Or He’ll say “no valet parking for a week”. Personally I wasn’t livid with Wenger I was livid with our players gutless first half showing. It wasn’t about pride in the shirt it was about self pride. I did wonder to myself if the players had taken Arsene’s rightful listing of the capital cup last on his priority list to heart. Maybe they thought he didn’t care so why should they?

    I have no idea what Arsene said? (Hair dryer or not) or did? (Boot kicking, thumb screws). All I can say is the team that came out for the second half was not the one that went in after 45 minutes. Even if things tried weren’t working, effort and commitment absent in the first half appeared miraculously in the second. We might not have been first to every ball second half, but at least we tried to get close, first half it looked like nobody cared. Just that little bit of added effort and commitment suddenly made all the difference, we hadn’t scored our second but we looked like we could. With an hour on the clock, time for Arsene to make changes; Narbry and Frimpong off Eisfeld and Giroud on. A Wenger masterstroke substitution, barely on for two minutes Giroud scores. Eisfeld begins to orchestrate the midfield area, he’s suddenly the man. Well he’s bound to be really in midfield now we only have one other, we are playing 4 2 4 Reading suddenly don’t look so sure, Arsenal do.

    One for the stats Arsenal score from a set piece, Kosielny gets on the end of Walcott’s corner for a free header which ends up in the bottom right hand corner. Probably “Too little too late” only a couple of minutes left plus added time. Reading just want the fat lady to sing. Instead Chamakh fed the irrepressible Walcott inside the 5.5mtr box and it’s in the net. The pendulum has swung, the tide has turned and there can only be one winner now. The only incredible stat now is that Chamakh gets two of the three we score. I’m not saying that the game shows us that Theo can play in the middle although maybe after last night if we want to hit teams on the break he’s deserving of the chance. It reminds us what Theo and pace can do. I think Giroud staked his place to lead the line. If Podolski is fit enough our front line should be Pod-Giro-Theo. I don’t know where that leaves Gerv the swerve but the question is immaterial as of, he’s out injured after all. That front three gives us plenty of firepower and variety.

    As come backs go it was fantastic, some will say Reading only scored 5 because of Abysmal defending which is true, others will say yeah but it was only the capital cup! Which is also true, nevertheless I believe that if we’d lost that CC game it would’ve sunk the whole club into murky darkness. Now it’s lifted the spirits of even the gloomiest of Gooners.

  43. slimgingergooner says:

    Anyone see that after 90 minutes some of our players threw their shirts into the crowd!!?

    Even the players didn’t know the score! :)

  44. Gooner In Exile says:

    Rasp as I have said for a while in the Theo contract saga it is simply not in his (or his agents) interest to leave in January.

    Any money that needs to be paid to Arsenal to secure his services is money he can’t receive himself.

    He is in the strongest bargaining position. Even if we decided to pay him £100k a week plus £25k a week image rights (these are less common since Revenue cracked down on the tax loophole) another team could pay him more.

    Lets say the team that wants him think he is worth paying £20m for (if he was under contract). And agree with a wage valuation of £80k per week. If they put him on a five year contract and pay him £156k per week and not be any worse off. £20m divided my 5 divided my 52 weeks is £76k. If the valuation of Theo is higher that figure only goes up. For every £1m more they think he is worth he can add £3.8k per week to his wages.

    So if this goes on much longer we will have no option than to treat him in the same way, ie a new player to sign. So the question is:

    Would any of us pay £20m for Theo?

    Lets be clear we did this when we signed Sol, and also it’s why Chamakh earns as much as he does.

  45. Gooner In Exile says:

    Slim I think they didn’t know there was extra time, neither did Micky….amateur! :D

  46. Morning all and how we were put through the mill last night by our beloved team. One thing I must say is that 3 assists from my russian favourite was a highlight for me. That’s what he’s about. He’s no Michael Carrick.I wonder if the Arshavin haters still wished he didn’t play last night ?

    In answer to Peachy’s question – it was a disasterous start, with ritual humiliation, followed by a hint of a stirring, then some anticipation, fore play and a huge release of relief as the pipe smoker capped the climax.

    Naturally enough there folowed a long period of exhaustion and slow recovery. :)

  47. 26may1989 says:

    Exile @ 11.20, absolutely on the button – Theo’s agents have succeeded in getting themselves into a position where they have all the bargaining power. And to those who say “Why don’t the club sort this out earlier?”, the answer is they tried but when it comes to senior players, clubs ultimately have little to no ability to control matters, all they can do is trust and hope the process goes well for them and that their interests at some point coincide with those of the player. The amazing thing is that more players’ agents don’t exploit their superior bargaining position.

  48. Bryan says:

    I think the question is more: why do we keep on getting into this situation with our players contracts

  49. Brigham says:

    26may covers it perfectly for me at his 10.29 and I can agree with all of his post.

    I thought Chamakh changed his entire attitude on the night when he was not given a penalty for the handball in the 2nd half. It really got to him, so much so that he was booked for his dissent. I commented at the time whilst watching with my brother-in-law (A Stokie)at his house, that “it has fired him up.” Strangely enough, said ‘BIL’ was very impressed with our fightback and thought the ref got a few decisions wrong against us!

    That second half performance was fantastic and could well be the ’51′ minutes needed to kick start us once again. United will obviously be a different prospect on Saturday lunchtime, but it can only have lifted the entire squad. I think the last time we played United on a Saturday lunchtime the season turned out very well! Here is hoping :-)

  50. 26may1989 says:

    Bryan, it’s not really a question of whether we keep getting into a situation or not, it is essentially something beyond any club’s control when dealing with senior players, who have accumulated value. It may or may not have happened more with Arsenal players, but when a club says two or three years before the end of the contract, let’s renegotiate, the player can say yes or no. If there is value in the player, as with Theo or van Persie or Nasri, there is an incentive to play a long game, albeit at the price of sacrificing the short-term benefit of an improved contract. Should the club sell a player who has two or three years remaining?

    I just don’t think enough peolpe get it, that clubs just can’t control these things. They can schedule meetings with agents, make offers, even threaten they will try to sell the player, but in the end, players don’t have to meet, don’t have to accept offers and don’t have to agree to be sold. And if players are sent to rot in the reserves, there are even rules allowing a player to terminate the contract with virtually no consequences.

    Players hold the cards, it’s as simple as that.

  51. Rasp says:

    Thanks GiE, I appreciate all you say and have said as much in the last 2 days. Yes he has all the bargaining power,yes it suits him to leave on a free etc etc – I was just looking for a crumb from you experts that may give us a chance of retaining his services and his image pulling power.

    I think he is worth more than £75k a week to Arsenal. The way I see it is that our only hope (and it is a slim one) would be that none of the big 7 or 8 clubs in Europe come in for him.

  52. richie says:

    @ Bryan 11:37 Re players contracts “It can’t be helped” get any player to sign a 4 year contract and after a year or two ask that player to sign an extension. If the players agent informs the club sorry but my client doesn’t want to get into contract talks at the moment. He wants his head clear and wants to concentrate solely on his game. the 4 year contract he signed with the club isn’t even half way through and my client will honor that contract and as he’s happy here at the club at this point he has every intention to resign another contract with the club when this contract still has a further year to run. What can be done? It’s reasonable When the last year is up negociations start, but after 3 months there are some sticking points, negociations continue for a further 3 months. Now we are into the players last 6 months of contract and he’s free to talk to other clubs. From the start this is an agents ploy its what they do in order to get their client whatever it is that he wants. Players have far too much power now.

  53. slimgingergooner says:

    There’s 2 simple reasons why this keeps happening with our players and non of the other top clubs:

    A) we have a wage structure
    B) we are not winning trophies

  54. Rasp says:

    Hi sgg, the message at the AGM was ‘wait just another 2 years until we secure better commercial deals and FFP bites, we’ll be much better off financiallly then’. Its down to your level of cynicism whether you choose to swallow that line

  55. Rasp says:

    …. having said that, if they were certain that the extra money was on the way, they could speculate more now – without taking too high a risk.

  56. richie says:

    @ Bryan It should be remembered if we decide to sell a player to a club it doesn’t mean that, that player will end up at that club. Personal terms have to be agreed and a player can refuse those terms which means he stays where he is. Next up the player can refuse to agree personal terms with every club his current club wants to sell him to. He’ll only agree personal terms with the club he wants to move to. That was how BSR forced through his move to our biggest rival.

  57. slimgingergooner says:

    The difference between a fan and a player though Rasp is that we will support Arsenal all our lives whereas players only have a short career. It doesn’t matter wether I swallow the line or not because I will still support the club, a player on the other hand (Theo on this occasion) will have to look at that line and wonder wether it’s worth sticking around. Add to this the fact that he can get more money elsewhere and you can start to understand why we have lost a lot of talent in recent years. You can’t really blame them can you? After all, how long ago was it that they were being told we would be competitive once the new stadium is built? I know other factors like sugar daddies etc came into play, but they must be sceptical as to wether this FFP thing is just another line. If it doesn’t, for whatever reason, will the next group of players hang around? I doubt it.

  58. Rasp says:

    ;) sgg, we’ve come full circle …. back to what I wrote in my piece on Monday; he’s going ….. bugger it

  59. richie says:

    @SlimGingGooner Sorry mate you’ve got that one totally wrong it happened to the most successful team in the prem with their biggest star. Rooney’s agents played Manu’er in exactly the same way as RvP played us the only difference was SAF backed down. He’d lost Ronaldo he couldn’t lose Rooney. So Manu’er gave Rooney exactly the contract he wanted.

  60. richie says:

    Either the club sticks to it’s principles or you always give in to player demands, you can’t have it both ways.

  61. richie says:

    By the way Peaches thanks for asking it was a wonderful thrill filled ride when can we do it again? :-) ;)

  62. 26may1989 says:

    Rasp, your point that “if they were certain that the extra money was on the way, they could speculate more now – without taking too high a risk” is a very good one. And remember, it’s not just the anticipated new commercial deals (which I’m sure will be very good), or the impact on the wage bill once the process of moving on overpaid non-performers; there are also the new TV deals, which will have an enormous impact on clubs’ revenues. From next season, even before the new overseas TV contract is in place (look out for a big contract with Al Jazeera), the bottom placed PL club will get more in TV money than City got last season for winning the title. Conservatively, each club will get on average an additional £40m-£50m, which will have a huge impact on English club finances and on FFP calculations.

    So when we wonder about the wisdom of United splurging on our best player plus Kagawa and a couple of others, or Chelsea spending on Oscar, Hazard etc, bear in mind that they are probably spending some of the money they know they will get and that the FFP impact is also taken into account.

    My criticism of Arsenal is that we appear not to be doing the same, we are waiting for the new TV money to come on stream, which to my mind appears to be very much on the conservative side. I’m
    a fan of the sustainable model but without endangering ourselves, I feel certain that there is scope to be more ambitious in the next couple of transfer windows.

  63. slimgingergooner says:

    Richie,

    Which brings you to point A of what I said, we have a wage structure! Man U obviously don’t.

    Rasp,

    I actually think he might stay, the reason being that he actually seems like a decent guy who isn’t motivated solely by big bucks. I honestly believe he wants to be a striker and that’s the only stumbling block. I hope he and the club find a compromise.

  64. richie says:

    I also think Theo’s a good guy who has Arsenal in his heart but nevertheless he still has an agen. Which is like saying this nice guy has a pitball attack dog sitting in his corner just in case.

  65. richie says:

    The above agen = agent

  66. richie says:

    @SGG yes I agree we’ve got a wage structure Manu’er probably have one too. My point was it doesn’t only happen to us at Arsenal because we haven’t been successful recently. It can happen to the most successful club, it can even happen to the most loyal of players too if they employ an agent. Agents will do whatever it takes to get their client whatever it is they want, however they can blackmail a club they will. In the Rooney Manu’er contract negociations I think it was obvious that SAF stepped in and broke whatever structure the club had.

  67. GoonerB says:

    Well done peaches to get something up today. Myself and my fellow gooner friend were dragged off to the cinema to see Bond last night by our wives, obviously with many protestations about missing the game. The only night that baby-sitters could be coincided unfortunately. Anyway I recorded the game to watch at my leisure, but kept an early eye on the score updates during the lengthy advert and trailer bit. Just before the film started it had hit 4-0 and I relayed this to my friend and we both wholeheartedly agreed that we were better off watching Bond. During the film I kept feeling my phone vibrate with 3-4 text messages and I came to the conclusion it was either some spuds I know gloating or we had just mounted the mother of all comebacks. Once we found out on leaving the cinema we felt morally obliged, no matter the late hour, to get back and crack some beers and watch the game. I will admit that due to the late hour we started watching from their 4th goal so I can only really comment from that point.

    Firstly I doff my hat to the Arsenal away support who must be one of the best in the EPL. The corporate nature of the Emirates obviously dilutes the atmosphere at times in terms of vocal support, but these guys deserve huge credit. At 4-1 down they were singing their hearts out.

    I wanted to talk a bit more on Walcott who I feel Walcott is really maturing now, not just on last nights performance but in many others recently. When he and Giroud play together and get closer to each other we seem to carry a lot more threat and for me they should make up 2 of the front 3 on Saturday. I understand fully why you would be upset Peaches if he goes. I think I will be more downright angry. We have had to suffer the inconsistencies over the last few years in order to develop him. If we let him go before we get our reward for this it really will play into the hands of those that talk about us being a developing academy for other big clubs. Do we really want to watch him turning out performances for someone else constantly asking, why did he not do this for us. The answer would be because we let him go just as he was ready to deliver.

    Big Raddy, I know you still have reservations about him and feel there are still inconsistencies in his game but I feel this is more an argument for the past and this is less the case now. I am not saying it is never the case, but he is still realistically likely 2-3 years from hitting his peak. We are likely to disagree on this point but you feel he lacks the tight control to operate centrally. I feel the opposite, that he has lacked the tight control to operate as a traditional winger, but centrally it is less of an issue. I always felt that his biggest issue was running at full-backs from deeper and at pace who have dropped off from him and he ends up getting the ball tangled in his feet as he gets closer to said defender and doesn’t know what to do. For me this is less an issue when he has less time to think and is more running in on goal where, IMO, his first touch and ability to drive away from defenders who get too tight to him is good. Last night he even started skinning full-backs out wide with good tight control running at pace, but his first goal emphasises everything for me. He showed AA the space to play the defence splitting pass with good positioning, and he took 2 good well controlled touches before lifting it over the keeper. It may have looked an easy goal but at pace those 2 touches were perfect that they weren’t too heavy that the ball got away from him, but were also not to light that he had to check in mid stride and allow the chasing defenders to get a foot in. For me that is a difficult skill that is often not appreciated enough. IMO no other player in our current squad would have scored that goal with the required blend of pace, controlled touches, and calm finishing. TH used to make it his trademark and Theo is certainly the closest we have to giving something of what the great man did.

    Right now for me he looks a £100kpw player in the current market. 15 months ago he wasn’t, but we didn’t get him to sign 15 months ago. We waited and since then his value has gone up. That is our fault. He is now in a commanding position and, where before I am happy to admit I did blame him, I now don’t blame him for holding out for more. I bet the majority of fans now would prefer to see him paid that figure and stay than for us hold our ground stubbornly and him to go to a rival. It is the fans money that swells the coffers, so if we all mostly feel the club should do what it takes to keep him, then they should really listen to and respect our views. I bet you if he does sign for this amount that there will still have been higher offers he would have turned down to stay with us.

  68. kelsey says:

    How many top PL clubs would take theo say on 100K a week / He played well last night but when he becomes consistent on a regular basis that would be another thing.

  69. Rasp says:

    Hi kelsey, my answer is manu for one and they’d pay him more than £100k a week. With their global marketing they’d probably get their money back in shirt sales etc alone.

  70. slimgingergooner says:

    Rasp,

    Do you think he works hard enough defensively to be a Fergie signing?

    Does anyone believe that another PL club, who could pay him more than us, would sign him to play as a striker?

    Liverpool springs to mind but why would he go there?
    Chelsea maybe, but they play the same formation as us.
    Wouldn’t get in the United side as a striker.
    City dont need him.

    Anyone else?

  71. Rasp says:

    Well I hope you’re right sgg – I said earlier our best chance of keeping him is if none of the big clubs are interested. I actually think all the big clubs will be interested – whether they can fit him into their squads is another question.

  72. slimgingergooner says:

    Rasp,

    I’ve no doubt he could play for all the top 4, but if his reason for leaving is to play as a striker, then I don’t see where he could get more game time than he would at Arsenal. Therefore, if he does leave, he’s a money grabbing w****r! ;)

  73. Rasp says:

    :lol: sgg, I reckon we’re all money grabbing w******s if the reward is high enough

  74. RockyLives says:

    Well done Peaches
    I’m sorry you lost your first draft, but what you posted is perfectly suited to getting the chat going about last night’s incredible game.

    I haven’t seen it yet – I’ll watch when it goes up on the Arsenal TV website.

    One thought I had: this is the first time for a long time where we have been on the right side of an “impossible comeback”.

    In the last few years we had the 4-4 with the Spuds, the 4-4 with Toon, the Spuds beating us at home after we were two up etc…

    Although as I am writing this I have just remembered last season’s 5-2 at home to the Spuds, where we were 2-0 down.

    Still, the point is, those earlier games where we managed to lose or draw from what should have been winning positions are starting to give way to the reverse, which can only be a good thing.

  75. slimgingergooner says:

    Not me Rasp,

    I go for the trophies! :)

  76. RockyLives says:

    Regarding Theo
    We have to assume he is off and may even know where he’s going (my guess would be ManUre).

    Who would pay him 100k a week? ManUre, Chavs, Shitty in a heartbeat. Spuds. Probably some of the Italian teams.

    If he does go it will probably be mostly about money, but a small factor will be all those times he heard the groans of (some of) the home fans echoing round the Ems every time he failed to find a pass or a cross or beat a player.

    The crowd’s current willingness to turn on our own players really disturbs me.

    Look at Gervinho: five goals and two assists already this season – yet the crowd are getting on his back. Do you know any other club whose top goalscorer is so hated by a proportion of the fans?

    I can fully imagine a situation a year or two down the line where he has really found his best form and is scoring freely – and of course his contract will be running out.

    The people who are giving him a hard time now will start saying “why didn’t Wenger sort this out earlier”. The player himself may feel that loyalty is a two-way street and decide to bugger off anyway.

    Last night people were writing off Frimpong as not good enough for Arsenal. He has just come back from a year out. He has made one start and one substitute appearance in the last year… but already he’s been judged as unworthy and marked for the out tray. Staggering.

    I suppose it all started when a 17-year-old Alex Song was booed at Fulham. After that game lots of people said “he’s just not Arsenal quality.” Wonder how that turned out…

    I have been at games in the 70s and 80s where certain of our players were being slaughtered by our fans, but I never saw it happen to young players at the start of their career.

    Oh dear… this has all got a bit gloomy and serious. Sorry!

    Hey – did anyone notice – we came back from 0-4 down to win a game last night :D

  77. Gooner In Exile says:

    GoonerB by your own admission Theo was not a £100k a week player 15 months ago, most fans would have questioned awarding him a new contract for his inconsistent display.

    It is very unreasonable to judge the failure to renew his contract on his current abilities.

    I am currently watching the highlights, much fun :D

  78. slimgingergooner says:

    RL,

    I totally agree with everything you have just said, but I think it’s a little unfair to say this only happens at our club.

    We live in a society of instant gratification, and if someone is bought for £20m and has a bad game then it’s to be expected that they get some grief, espescially at a time when the country is going through tough times. It’s totally shit that this is the norm now, but that’s just the way it is unfortunately. You also have to blame the media for the way they instantly jump on players on teams after 1 or 2 bad games. You only have to look at the current Arsenal ‘crisis’ to see how ridiculous things have become. Reading would give their right arms to have our reserve squad, never mind our first team, yet we are the ones in meltdown!!!!

  79. RockyLives says:

    Thanks Slim
    I didn’t mean to say it happens only at our club.
    But ours is the only club I care about.

  80. double98 says:

    The team last night looked like they had never played together.

    they hadn’t.

    the arsenal players looked while technically good looked as it they lacked cohesion and confidence

    they did

    The game plan seemed to be put good players together and test the theory that good players will gel

    they did

    at 4-0 the Arsenal fans chanted “We want our Arsenal Back”

    1-7 later they had it

    Arshavin, Chamakh, Walcott all had their commitment, capability and fitness questioned

    120 minutes later the proved it

  81. richie says:

    @ RL Arsenal’s success in the 90′s with GG and the success that almost immediately followed with Arsene is/was a double edged sword. In came a load of youngsters who didn’t have an Arsenal background all they knew was Arsenal winning. Arsene’s success also brought about the Emirates and the ground change by necessity bought in the corporate bods. The end result is we’ve ended up with season ticket holders with very little allegiance to the club (corporate) and youngsters who suffer from attention deficit syndrome (don’t they all)? With regards to the later they thought that supporting Arsenal was easy. We played stylish football had superstar icons in the team like Henry, it was entertaining and we won. Now we aren’t winning things the corporate(s) with no Arsenal background Boo because they aren’t being entertained. The Booing of your own players was unheard of in my youth. Next up the ADS sufferers claim the solution is to throw the baby out with the bath water and change managers. The season ticket prices are restrictive to many real local Gooners who can only afford to head for local Arsenal pubs to watch a game. That is why the crowd at the Emirates isn’t a total Gooner crowd. I kid you not I know more than one corporate who goes to the Emirates who supports the swap dwellers. Away supporters are only hard core Gooners.

  82. slimgingergooner says:

    Just think, this time last year we were contemplating a very tough game away at Chelsea, wondering wether it would make or break our new look squad!

    Does lightning strike twice?

    I bloody hope so! :)

  83. RockyLives says:

    richie
    amen to all that!

    slim
    nice analogy – it’s just a shame that BSR is on the wrong side this time.

  84. richie says:

    I agree with SGG I’ve got 4 kids my eldest is +30 and she’s the only one who doesn’t have the Now Now syndrome. The 8 year old and middle 2 teens think if its not now we don’t want to wait we can’t. They are like that in everything. Give them a TV remote and they are barely on a station long enough to know whats on, they don’t only net surf they programme search the TV. flitting from station to station. Often watching more than one show at a time. I can’t even stay in the room when they’ve got the remote its too distracting.

  85. Bryan says:

    26th May & Richie
    Sorry I beg to differ over the contract situations, as it happens to regurlary at Arsenal. I totally understand that you can not false them to sign early but I do not see it happen much at any other clubs in the EPL, so to me there is something very wrong with our handling of player contracts.
    The only example of a player who wanted to negotiate when he had 3 years left on his contract was Song, who apparently tried to, most likely to get a payrise but Arsenal didnt want to know & as you know was sold.

  86. Gooner In Exile says:

    Rocky I couldn’t agree more.

  87. Just to be clear on the contract “debacle” I assume all are very happy to have Diaby, Denilson, Bendtner, Chamakh etc on long contracts?

  88. Arteta interviewing Santi on Sky Sports Revista De Liga, very amusing

  89. Bryan is it because no one else has got the players as sought after as ours? Where else do you expect it to happen?

    Like someone said earlier Rooney demanded money and got it, Tevez walked out on United at end of his contract (people conveniently forget that), Ronaldo sold to Real Madrid.

  90. Bryan says:

    GIE
    I guess its a double sided sword but doesn’t it seem like all the players you want shot of have years left on their contracts & no one will buy them because their over paid & all the ones you want to keep are up for renewal but won’t extend ;-)

  91. slimgingergooner says:

    RL,

    Do you think RvP will get a rough ride from the away fans, and if so, do you think he will celebrate if he scores?

  92. Big Raddy says:

    Been stuck inside with man-flu for two days now. Thank Dennis for You Tube and AA (and books!)

  93. Szczesny 2014
    Fab1 2013
    Mannone 2014
    BFG 2015
    TV5 2015
    Kozzer 2017
    Squid 2013
    Djourou 2015
    Santos 2015
    Gibbs 2014
    Sagna 2014
    Jenkinson 2015
    Coq 2015
    Frimpong 2013
    Diaby 2015
    Arteta 2015
    Wilshere 2016
    Rambo 2016
    Rosicky 2014
    Cazorla 2016
    Pod 2016
    Ox 2017
    Gerv 2015
    Theo 2013
    AA23 2013
    Giroud 2017
    Cham 2014

    So Theo, Arsh, Fabianski, Frimpong and Squid up for renewal before end of season….out of 28 players

  94. slimgingergooner says:

    GiE,

    So Szscesny, Gibbs, Sagna, Theo and Frimps need new contracts this year to avoid a similar scenario next season.

    The likes of Arshavin, Squillaci, Chamakh, Fabianski, Mannone and Rosicky aren’t exactly players we should be desperate to extend.

  95. kelsey says:

    I think the assumption that if Theo goes it will be to United because of the connection he had with RVP at Arsenal.

    With regards to Rooney, I have heard on good authority, that the whole thing was contrived between SAF and Rooney himself,believe it or believe it not.

  96. Rasp says:

    According to t’internet, Arsenal have confirmed that the controversioal 4th goal was scored by Theo giving him a hattrick (shame for Jenks) – so who has the final say? The club, the FA, Mystic Meg?

  97. Rasp says:

    chas, if you’re reading, I await your assists widget – who have you given the 4th goal to?

  98. RockyLives says:

    Slim
    In order:
    Yes
    No

  99. LB says:

    Kelsey

    For what it is worth I can imagine that the Rooney transfer saga was completely contrived.

  100. richie says:

    @Byran how many other clubs in the prem have players that know they could get bundles elsewhere? Arsene develops players like Song from nothing so is it surprising that the Chav (Oil billions) Citeh (Oil Billions) Manc (Debt Millions) want to offer our players salaries that double what we offer. Is it surprising that agents tell their clients to run down your contract because they can get them double elsewhere None of the other top 4 clubs does it happen to because they are paying their players £200k a week. None of the others 16 clubs have players that the agents know could command big money so it rarely happens to them.

  101. kelsey says:

    So what is the answer, richie :)

  102. richie says:

    @Kelsey we all heard that at the time but I for one can’t see it! It damaged Rooney’s image. It didn’t show Manu’er in a good light and SAF came out of it looking like it had been contrived. I think it was too damaging all around for SAF to have contrived it, he’d of put a spin on it better than it all came out. I may not like him but he’s a backstreet boy at heart too shroud to let that sort of bad publicity out.

  103. Bryan says:

    Rasp, that seems correct to give the goal to Theo as it looked to have crossed the line but as the linesman & referee had not given it, I would have thought it had to be Jenks goal.
    That brings me to another point I thought about, If Jenks did not lash in the rebound, would we all be tlking today about how we had been ripped off losing 4-3 because Theo’s last gast goal wasn’t given ;-)

  104. Bryan says:

    Richie I do not disaagree with alot of what you are saying but Liverpool & Spurs for example seem to do a better job of holding on to their top players & before you say Modric & Torres, yes of course they will lose afew but not every single season like we do

  105. richie says:

    @Kelsey stick to our principles! We’ve never been a big spending club lets not get swept up in the spending of others. Expand the academy I’d love us to go down the toekomst route. 80% home grown.

  106. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    Thanks for the post Peaches

    After 35 minutes i wanted to reach for a revolver alright, but not for me, i wanted to shoot the players. It was simply unacepatble to turn up and not put in the required effort. looking at Arsenes face after the game you could tell he was still angry about the first half, and rightly so.

    2nd half we were more aggresive, ran harder, chalanged for every ball and got, at the end, our just rewards. It was great to watch, but please, not again.

    I dont mond loseing 4-0 if we have tried. Thats all i ask, when you put on the glorious red and white shirt just give 100%.

  107. richie says:

    Spuds & the Pool are buying clubs they don’t develope like we do and its not just Modric & Torres What about Berbatov & Xavi Alonso
    players have everything their own way now. The balance of power shifted after Bosman and the agents have had a field day since, its the clubs that’ve suffered.

  108. chas says:

    Rasp,
    I’ve got two versions.
    I can’t find a definitive verdict as to who scored the fourth.
    Arsenal.com says Walcott as do the BBC.

    This suggests the ref wouldn’t have given it if Jenks hadn’t smashed it in. What do you think?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_GcadGCou8

  109. Bryan says:

    Mr Transplant, you are exactly right, it does not matter who is playing, youngsters or first teamers, the 1st half was totally unaceptable & I do not want to ever have to experience that from an Arsenal side again.
    I also believe that the Norwich & Schalke performances were also unaceptable

  110. kelsey says:

    I think you should write a post for AA, richie as you have very definite ideas a bit like me but from different angles :)

  111. johnnie nyc says:

    I havent been able to see the match, i had a bad stream.. but seeing Walcott play well really only upsets me, because i am torn about whether I want to keep him,(though i’m sure he’s gone now anyway)—
    but much worse, I am upset about how we mishandled the whole situation with him since last year. what a waste..

  112. chas says:

    Thanks for the post, Peaches, especially in the light of losing the first version.

    It was absolutely magnificent for me, though I was slightly inebriated and full of forgetfulness-inducing prawn sandwiches, so extra time, in particular, is a bit of a blur. Having said that it’s one of the nicest blurs I’ve ever had the fortune to experience.

    Ant said I was singing ‘Toon Army’ at the top of my voice at one point. The lad who had got us the hospitality tickets is a Geordie which might have had something to do with it.

    Rasp,
    I’ll send both versions and you can choose.

  113. Bryan says:

    Richie, as I said yes Pool & Spuds both lose afew but not every single year that was the point I was making.
    The Bosman rule in my opinion was the worse thing to happen to football, it made players become greedy & show no loyalty at all & now with the billionaire clubs, this problem has been made even worse. The biggest winners are the players

  114. richie says:

    In case anyone doesn’t understand Toekomst? It means the future. Where are you when your needed TA? Its Ajax’s academy. For me La Masia (Barca) and Toekomst (Ajax) Johannes Cruijff had a hand in both are the natural way to combat excessive big money buys.
    After all Toekomst produced “God” and La Masia Messi.

  115. johnnie nyc says:

    hey Rocky, do you watch the EPL on fox ? i heard fox and espn just lost the the rights to NBC sports for next season… even though i dont like the pundits on fox, i am very accustomed to the fox set-up. I just hope we dont end up with American match commentators..

  116. GoonerB says:

    Sorry I am late referring to earlier comments but I have been away for a while. Can’t be helped.

    Rocky (2.08), I couldn’t agree more about the tendency of some fans to turn on their own players. Once they have the Arsenal shirt on, and as long as the look like they are trying hard, they have my support. If it is going wrong in that game or they are in reality a player that is not good enough at this level then that is for the manager to sort out. I had a chat with a friend today who bemoaned Frimpong and I said to him exactly what you said about his injuries e.t.c. It is far too early to make a reasoned judgement on his future with us.

    GIE (2.09). I take your point about the contract situation then and now. I don’t think I expressed myself as well as I could have. I agree you cannot judge the failure to renew Walcott’s contract some time back based on his current abilities. I agree also that many fans would have groaned if AW had renewed Walcott’s contract and unfortunately the club will never please everyone. Even if his ability was different 15 months back you could see that he was still considered by many other big clubs as a dangerous player. A reasoned judgement by the club, IMO, should have led to the conclusion that he is therefore a commodity that would generate interest in the open market and have a re-saleable value.

    He was a player that split opinion 15 months back (and maybe still now) and he was in that grey area of will he become a top player or not. If he was, however, signed up 15 months ago and then takes a big leap forwards in his ability then, yes we have done well because we now have a player playing at a higher level than we are currently paying him. For me though the saving of £20kpw is less important than the fact that he is our player on a longer term contract, which makes it difficult for other clubs to poach him. If he doesn’t progress as well as we hoped I think someone would have taken him off our hands at a decent transfer fee and at the wages we had signed him on. Basically we have secured ourself either way.

    The problem for me is that knowing we are a club that will not match other clubs that we are rivals with in wages, it becomes more important to secure on contracts early those players that could potentially take a step up, because if they do take that step up and they are in the last year of their contract we know we will be gazumped by other clubs. We have found ourselves in this position 2-3 times now with players that have started to deliver. Our policy needs to be different to say Citeh or Chelski for this reason. They can let a player wind down a contract and if that player suddenly surprises them, they know that no-one will outbid them on wages anyway.

  117. kelsey says:

    Gooner B
    re your last paragraph.What is to stop a player buying himself out of a contract mid term.

    With theo he was unique for us when we bought him.he was english and been called up into the national squad without Erikson ever really assessing him. The expectations on one so young were high. I am still undecided if he will turn out to be a top top player but after various ishoulder injuries his improvement last season and days like yesterday shows we may lose a player by him just walking away after 8 years just when he may be part of our integral first eleven automatically.

  118. Poor johnnie nyc, he’s in New York you know and none of you rotten lot even asked him if he’s ok ………….

    johnnie – how are you and your family, people were sending you messages the other night?

  119. richie says:

    @GoonerB how long is a bit of string? If we knew every player that would step up they’d all be signed up on 10 years contracts at 17
    If I knew next weeks lotto No. my life might be easier, but none of us know. Also as I’ve said agents well tell their young 17 year old clients who don’t have a name to sign 5 year contracts, but that same agent will tell the 22 year old who’s making progress only sign a 4 year contract, knowing in 2 years time if he’s doing well the agent will have the club by their short curl’s. In the current climate I don’t know there is a ready made solution so long as young player continue to develop rapidly under Wenger.

  120. Big Raddy says:

    Peaches … dear….. we all asked Johnny yesterday, but …

    Johnny, I hope all is well with you and yours.

  121. johnnie nyc says:

    thanks Peaches, Raddy… I was fortunate with the storm.. but still home nursing a Wlishire injury on my foot.. hope to be able to work again within a month or two..its been very difficult… chatting with you guys has helped alot.

  122. Big Raddy says:

    This contract situation is not new. Arsenal will undoubtedly have consulted top contract lawyers to solve this problem. If they have no solution then there in’t one The players have the power.

    Or you end up with players out on loan because no-one is willing to match their wages – like Denilson, Bendtner etc etc

  123. Gooner In Exile says:

    johnnie nyc says:
    October 31, 2012 at 4:45 pm
    I havent been able to see the match, i had a bad stream..

    That strikes me as the understatement of the year given your current location

  124. Big Raddy says:

    Jnc. Sorry to hear tat about your foot. Be assured you have the support of the entire worldwide Arsenal community. We are united in our concerns for your Wilshere.

  125. I just watched the 2nd half and extra time. It’s exciting even when you know the score.

  126. JNYC hope everything is ok with you.

  127. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Peaches,
    Re Johnnie: that shows how much you read the words of your flock :-)

  128. Whatever we offer Theo at least 5 other teams will offer him more (including lolerpool)

  129. Who do we want in the next round?

  130. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    sorry about the leg johnnie baby.

    Hope you dont become addicted to your injury like i did. I spent months after my leg break making out that it was worse than it was so i could continue to be pampered and escape chores. One saturday night, after we had just beaten totnumb 3-1, i had taped our victory and whilst Mrs Terry was out was watching a re run whilst freaking out at full voulme to earth wind and fires lets groove tonight.

    I didnt hear her come in to the living room, i was to busy doing the boogie down splits on the dining table whilst watching our third goal. Anyway, lets just say that was the last boogie i got for a long long time. hahahaha

  131. johnnie nyc says:

    thanks to Michael, Terry,everybody :-) it really does lift my spirits to hear from friends.
    — another thing that might cheer me up would be to stun United this weekend.

  132. kelsey says:

    A married man left work early one Friday afternoon. Instead of going home, he spent the weekend (and his money) partying with the boys. When he finally returned home on Sunday night, His wife really got on his case and stayed on it.

    After a couple of hours of swearing and screaming, his wife paused and then made him an offer “How would you like it if you didn’t see me for a couple of days?”
    The husband couldn’t believe his luck, so he looked up, smiled and said, “That would suit me just fine!!”

    Monday went by and the man didn’t see his wife. Tuesday and Wednesday went by and he still didn’t see her. Come Thursday, the swelling had gone down a bit and he could see her a little out of the corner of his left eye.(just for Terry)

  133. :oops: sorry flock, I completely forgot that i missed the whole of yesterday’s blogging due to several ready mix concrete lorries and a pump arriving early in the morning :oops:

    It was fun though ;)

  134. Gooner In Exile says:
  135. Big Raddy says:

    I am not a flock, I am a free man

    Top stuff from the United fans

  136. glic says:

    Thank you peaches. I`m glad you got to write a happy one, as I think you usually get stuck with the ” losses” when everyone goes into hiding !. hahaha
    Been to see Madagascar 3 today with my Grandaughter, a right kiddies film, thats probably why I liked it !.
    Got back to watch the match. To tell the truth, other than their first 4 goals ( which 2 were jammy ), I didn`t think we were that bad ! . hahaha. I`m actually serious, I`ve seen us play worse, fair enough we weren`t that great either.
    Great entertainment though and I bet chas had a great time.
    Theo`s first goal told me one thing, we must try to keep him, imo, no one at the club finishes better than him !. If we give him a contract of £100k per week for 4 years, it`s nearly £21m, wont a decent replacement cost as much with fee and wages and also be a gamble ?.

  137. Gooner In Exile says:

    Well Glic, yes they would but Llorente and Lopez are both out of contract end of season…..i see a Wenger free on the horizon…both have said they want to play in the PL….we have a little spanish contingent coming together already (Miquel, Arteta, Cazorla) couple more will be nice.

  138. Gooner In Exile says:

    Am not impressed by Chelsea’s reserve/squad players

  139. kelsey says:

    Red Arse said (on TA’s blog)

    A lot of talk today refers to Theo and his salary demands.

    The extra money he is asking for amounts to about £6m per annum. That amounts to £48m over a 4 year period.

    GLIC which one of you is right.

  140. kelsey says:

    GIE,,

    you are right,wait and see The Spanish Armada is arriving.

  141. Gooner In Exile says:

    Moses down a little early there for the penalty

  142. Big Raddy says:

    Far be it from me to argue with the mathematical talents of RA but 4 x 6 = 24

    And 4 years of 100k = 21m

  143. Gooner In Exile says:

    Kelsey trying to get my head round that, 6×4 =£24m. Or are you saying that is the extra he wants and combined with his existing its £48m? Either way its a lot of wedge.

  144. glic says:

    kelsey, you ask; “GLIC which one of you is right”
    kelsey, I ask you this, are you asking me or the mirror ?. hahaha
    I dont know what he is being offered, I`m just speculating with a nice round figure !, but my sums do add up ! :)
    GIE, Isn`t Liorente a bit like Giroud ?. Dont know much about Lopez, but if they`re are free !…………and better than a Chamakh free , then maybe !.

  145. Gooner In Exile says:

    Ignore me Kelsey, where is our lanky yank to explain?

  146. glic says:

    Is the draw for the quarters tonight ?

  147. BosnianHero says:

    THIS is why we support Arsenal.MAN I just hope our home fans would have 10% of passion or away fans have.Hearing our away fans singing and supporting louder than Reading fans is amazing although Emirates atmosphere is shite.Honorable mentions go to 2:1 Barca game 3:0 Milan game and 5:2 Spurs game.When we win we kinda support when we lose hardly any support.Be grateful that u are born in London Bastards :)

    Hero from Sarajevo :)

  148. dandan says:

    was amused to see these Twitter messages from our no1 fan.

    Piers Morgan

    @piersmorgan
    When fans chant ‘We want our Arsenal back’, it’s time for a new manager. Wenger’s been brilliant, but he’s lost his competitive edge.
    30 Oct 12 ReplyRetweetFavorite
    How embarrassing. How he had the gall to celebrate as Arsenal fought back is beyond us.

    Piers Morgan

    @piersmorgan
    5-4. And Chamakh scored? Words fail me. (Other than ‘ssssshhhh’ to all Reading fans) #Arsenal

  149. glic says:

    Just had a look , it`s tonight !.

  150. evonne says:

    I do not like what I am seeing, 2nd Manyoo team? Oh feck, they are bloody good :(

  151. neamman says:

    JD is a good defender, maybe not top 4 quality..but like Senderos can do a job when played regularly in the EPL. I hope AW gives Theo a chance up front with OG. Good to see Chamack back in the goals. MU beating Chelsea with a weakened team..maybe they will win the league doe to having the strongest squad, if not the strongest starting 11. Cant see MC repeating.

  152. Gooner In Exile says:

    Chavs are just really bad Evonne

    Spuds 2-1 down to Norwich, Liverpool losing to Swans, love the Capital One Cup :D

  153. slimgingergooner says:

    Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs gone out tonight!

    A nice home draw v Bradford please.

  154. evonne says:

    Lee Mason will be accused of calling de Mateo a budgie face twat, that will learn him to see handballs in the future

    Mosses is good

  155. evonne says:

    steady on Slim, Chavs got extra time :)
    Nice, we want Manyoo tired

  156. slimgingergooner says:

    Spoke too soon!

  157. Gooner In Exile says:

    Wow Liverpool v Swansea, possession stats 41%-59%

  158. slimgingergooner says:

    I’m watching on Sky Go so I’m about a minute behind.

    No change there then I hear you cry! :)

  159. Gooner In Exile says:

    An LFC friend was really laying in to me at 4-0 on Twitter last night, sent him a tweet about being premature, i have kept quiet all night, i think i might send him a tweet:

    Complete the well known phrase, “he who laughs last……”

  160. 26may1989 says:

    Spurs out!

    United going into extra time!

  161. 26may1989 says:

    Re dandan’s 8.46, Piers Morgan being an Arsenal fan is more embarrassing than I can express. Would anyone really object if we sent him to that Dignitas clinic????? Bad taste? Soz…..

  162. TERRY MANCINI HAIR TRANSPLANT says:

    How bad must the other lot be when you actuly want utd to win. Alright if it was Totnumb ide want a team managed by Jimmy savile with Gary Glitter scoring a hatrick to beat them, but Chelsea?

    I just cant stand the Bastards. They epotomise everything shit in the modern game with there ugly loads of money owner.

    Of course, i am also very jealous of there recent success. hahaha

  163. Big Raddy says:

    26 lol

  164. I cursed that lol. I hate the mancs though so it’s all good

  165. Big Raddy says:

    Now that is comedy defending. Can Wooton start on Saturday?

  166. LOLERPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

  167. slimgingergooner says:

    Should’ve been red.

  168. They should have had a pen too. I hope the mancs go out.

  169. Big Raddy says:

    Norwich have beaten both AFC and Spurs in their last two home games

  170. slimgingergooner says:

    We are a decent home draw away from having a very good chance of winning this competition.

  171. slimgingergooner says:

    I would hate to play in tge same team as Sturridge. He is the greediest footballer I’ve seen for a while

  172. Big Raddy says:

    Home game against anyone but the Chavs please

  173. Gooner In Exile says:

    SGG I know as Arsenal fan we try and avoid Spud games, but have you not seen Fefoe play?

  174. Peaches, you are a peach.Fancy someone thinking of hurricane Sandy when we have to play Manure away on Saturday!
    Thanx for your post today after a crazy Arsenal ride last night. I knew we would win anyway though.
    There has been some interesting comments on wider issues here today. @richie- these youngsters are the victims of this “dumbing down society” We are now consumers. To see is to want, although not very many people bother to look before they see..anything;-)

  175. hahahahahaha red nosed gusset

  176. slimgingergooner says:

    Hazards not bad is he!

  177. I was going to say that slim (sturridge=greedy wanker)

    giggs is a vile scumbag

  178. slimgingergooner says:

    Don’t think these 2 games could’ve gone any better heading into the weekend. Not just the results, but the way the 2 games played out has been perfect for us.

    Bring on Saturday.

  179. Bradford at home please. Home whatever and I’ll meet you at the Tavern

  180. Big Raddy says:

    Very entertaining game but it was Chavs first team vs MU B team

  181. johnnie nyc says:

    sturridge is selfish, but talented..i was hoping manu would have a nice long, exhausting game,but they did rest their key players..

  182. Chavs 5 Mavs 4. These guys are trying to steal our thunder.We must endeavour to go oop north and beat this team managed by the purple nosed one this Saturday afternoon early.

  183. Mike Dean is the ref on Saturday. I’d take a point now

  184. We got them away :(

  185. slimgingergooner says:

    Good draw. Only half hour away from me too! Hope I can get a couple of tickets.

    Chelsea got a tough game away at Leeds. Forgot they had World Club Challenge as well as ACN this year.

  186. 26may1989 says:

    Got to say, not so chuffed about our draw, on the basis that one of our weaknesses is underrating smaller teams. I would’ve preferred our players to be kept on their toes with a tie vs Swansea or Villa.

    But it is what it is. And as Slim says, Chelsea have a tough draw, which is as it should be.

  187. richie says:

    It’ll be tough if Leeds kick them to bits! (If only)
    SGG have you got your own jet? Or are you living it up in Chapletown and prepared to walk to Bradford? I’d fancy a run up just to be able to eat a great Murg Musallam. All Gooners arrive in time to eat coz in Bradford you can eat really well if you eat Britain’s most popular cuisine “Indian” I love the food up there, whenever I head North I try to make it via Bradford. Gt Horton Rd is a good place to start you can’t go wrong.

  188. RockyLives says:

    Just seen the draw – very happy.

    We should expect to be in the Semis, with a decent chance that we’ll be the only “top” team there (Chavs will have a hard game away at Leeds).

    Shades of two years ago, when all the big teams dropped out and left us a clear run at the Cup. Only little Birmingham in our way… Oh…

  189. RockyLives says:

    Love the fact that at 4-0 down on Tuesday, Spuds fans were all over twitter and the Internet gloating.

    Fast forward 25 hours and we’re in the QFs while they are out on their arses in the only competition they had any hope of winning :D

  190. richie says:

    The Norwich result put into context.
    If anyone’s interested at this late stage after yesterdays firework display. This just came to me from Arsenal.com. Originally from behind the numbers by Josh James. It was forwarded to me by the great Blogger Desi Gunner. It’s the confirmation I’ve been looking for that my perception wasn’t wrong. If we play away after the interlul chances are we won’t win. Played 17 won 7

    Results following international breaks (since 2004/05)
    P W D L Win%
    Home 26 20 5 1 76.9%
    Away 17 7 2 8 41.2%
    TOTAL 43 27 7 9 62.8%

  191. Gooner In Exile says:
  192. Gooner In Exile says:

    Did Arsene really say this?

  193. VCC says:

    I hope so GIE.

  194. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Morning all.
    What’s on the menu for today?

  195. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Did any Utd players who may start saturday play the 120 mins?

  196. evonne says:

    leftovers Micky, unless we want to rip apart rotten Chavs
    morning all

  197. MickyDidIt89 says:

    A bubble and squeak day then :-)

  198. MickyDidIt89 says:

    One question I refrained from asking yesterday as I felt it was a day to celebrate and not whinge, but why are we so consistently slow out of the blocks against the supposed lesser teams.
    Players or Wenger?
    Unrelated question, but which England Manager had the nickname “Mogadon” from the players because of his deadly pre-match speaches?

  199. Gooner In Exile says:

    Micky I don’t think any nailed ons 1st teamers started but it will pretty much guarantee that Giggs, Wellbeck, Hernandez, Nani are not going to have fresh legs even off the bench.

    What was noticeable for both teams is their lack of cover at CB, Chelsea fielded Cahill and Luiz, one assumes they have no one else they think good enough for 1st team action there apart from Terry and Ivanovic.

    United really are down to bare bones at centre back…they are an injury to Ferdinand or Evans away from fielding one of the youngsters who took the field last night. So plan for Saturday “injure a centre back” :)

  200. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Regarding the spelling of “speech”, reminds me of the dyslexic yorkshireman wearing his cat flap.

  201. Gooner In Exile says:

    My guess is the wally with a brolly Micky

  202. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Good thinking GiE.
    Re injuring a Utd CB on saturday, don’t we have any assets on the ground who could do a job for us before the weekend?

  203. MickyDidIt89 says:

    GiE,
    Yes, you’re right, it was he

  204. kelsey says:

    Morning all.

    Micky what time do you get up :)

    i was on here at 4.00 a.m. but this new wordpress keeps making me resign in, nearly on a daily basis. So I went back to bed.

    I would argue that we are more often than not slow out of the blocks,something we invariably did last season a lot. If we were a greyhound we would never win a race.

  205. kelsey says:

    Bradford falls quite well in our fixture list.Surely martinez won’t play. I noticed cech stayed in goal last night.They do have a strong squad yet decided to keep him in goal.

  206. Gooner In Exile says:

    Kelsey may be you have hit inthe problem, the winners of most greyhound races do something before the race, perhaps we need to put a little more fibre in the diet :)

  207. kelsey says:

    GIE,

    I have recommended Metamusil on here several times :)

  208. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Kelsey,
    About 6am. Always awake thinking about work, so it is easier to crack on.
    We are ok in big games, but for years now, terrible in some of the others. Look what bad starts we make in the games we ought to be winning.
    As far as I’m concerned, it has nothing to do with money or the players, as its almost a completely new side to three years ago, and it was then I suggested AW need help on the motivation front in the shape of a food and sleep deprived Tony Adams.

  209. kelsey says:

    So some players aren’t overweight, just bloated Therefore restricts their performance. Simples.

  210. kelsey says:

    I prefer to think about sex ;)

  211. MickyDidIt89 says:

    I think its Arsene who needs a new diet. Less of the steamed fish, and more raw meat.

  212. MickyDidIt89 says:

    “Overweight” as in “Dim”?

  213. Big Raddy says:

    Morning All.

    Better the team are sent out with a “Buddhist” attitude.

  214. chas says:

    richie at 3:56,

    I thought I’d have a quick look to see what our away win percentage was over the same period to see if 41.2% was a significant deviation from the mean.

    Away from home
    Year Wins Win%
    2005…12…..63%
    2006….6……31%
    2007….7……37%
    2008…10…..53%
    2009….9……47%
    2010….8……42%
    2011….8……42%
    2012….9……47%

    Average win percentage away from home is 45%.
    Significant?
    Where’s RA and GN5?

  215. chas says:

    Micky,
    Arsene has plenty of testosterone flowing through his Gallic veins.
    Ask the rapper. :)

  216. MickyDidIt89 says:

    ROLF Raddy

  217. MickyDidIt89 says:

    Morning Chas,
    I haven’t crossed swords with you since your amazing night out in Reading. Wowee

  218. chas says:

    I’ve been recovering, Micky.
    Me and corporate hospitality are a bit of a lethal combination.
    It certainly was a memorable night (especially for my brother who was driving and remained sober).

  219. Big Raddy says:

    Always good to have a designated driver. My ex didn’t drink so I took her where (wasn’t for the company!)

  220. chas says:

    Watching the game again on Arsenal Player was exciting.
    It was almost as if I hadn’t seen some of it before, so much happened.
    This screen print is for Jason Roberts who claimed we scored on 95:30.
    4 minutes on the board means a minimum of 4 minutes i.e anything up to 4:59 can be played and that’s without a time-wasting substitution and refusing to take throw-ins. :)

    http://twitpic.com/b9apqx/full

  221. chas says:

    She obviously didn’t need beer goggles, BR, what with your stunning good looks. :)

  222. kelsey says:

    Chas,

    His numerous wives were all attracted to his bicycle

  223. Big Raddy says:

    I am about to change bikes and am returning to the old fashioned sit up and beg sturdy style. A reflection of my advanced years.

    kelsey, do you think it will make me less attractive?

    Can’t blame Roberts – we would be unhappy if the situation were reversed

  224. Morning all

    We have a New Post from the slimgingergooner …………..

  225. chas says:

    BR,
    That’s far too reasonable for me.
    He was pissed off because he got subbed to waste time and realised that his substitution caused there to be enough time for us to equalise.

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